Hey Gang. Sorry that I got this threat up a little late. I really do believe that those who can post at least once a week, and read what other students are saying, will get a richer experience. It is clear to me that school and class time are both CRITICAL to academic progress, but that MOST of our work is done outside of the classroom. Whether it is our own personal study, group study in v-rooms, or carrying on the conversation in the class blog, let's make every effort to engage with all four mentors outside of class as well as in.
So today I'm asking a simple question for everyone, but especially the World History folks: What are the most powerful lessons you've learned or even re-learned from chapter III in Roots of American Order regarding the Greek influence on the rest of the world, and particularly on the foundations of America?
I also welcome any other epiphanies or connections or just interesting thoughts!
well... The Greeks sort of taught us what NOT to do a cording to Kirk...
ReplyDeletebut, Solon taught us a lot about checks and balances and all that fun stuff...
on an unrelated note...
I got my eagle project approved!!!!! (also my Led Project) and so I will be starting my eagle/led project hopefully this Saturday!!!
This has nothing to do with the World History thought above, because I am not taking that class. BUT, the first part of my SoLed project is this weekend. I am extremely excited. I have 5 confirmed attenders, and it will be tons of fun. I will update as it goes on. :)
ReplyDeleteOk this is for World History and the Greeks taught us about having higher law. Although they made a lot of mistakes it helps us because we can learn from those mistakes that they made and improve upon what they were doing. They taught the Americans that we can work together and that even though we face conflict we came overcome it even though in the end they sort of failed. They were doing really well for a long time and we have been able to copy that and change it to work for us.
ReplyDeleteI think it's really sad that the Greeks failed in learning how to live together in peace and justice, and yet succeeded in almost everything else. Learning how to live together in peace and justice is one of the most important lessons we as human beings can learn, in my opinion. If the Greeks could have been able to learn that lesson, just think about how much more they would have flourished.
ReplyDeleteHey everyone else posting at the exact same time. :) 3 main things Greeks taught American founding fathers:
ReplyDelete1. Morals are numbah 1 priority for a strong society!!
2. Greeks to Americans: here is a really bad way of governing people, and here is exactly how we failed and got destroyed...hope it helps you become un-like us!
3. The Greeks' art and architecture showed the rest of the world that MAN IS BEAUTIFUL!...and he can create beautiful things. :) Even when their morals stink, man can create beautiful things.
Big WOWs from Roots of American Order:
ReplyDelete1.The importance of morals being made and upheld in a society.
2.Different ways societies can succeed and die.
3.What can happen to people in those societies and how they change themselves as well as the community - what effect they have on things.
The Greeks helped me understand human weakness and the world by (1) showing how to NOT strive for order in the soul, and therefore they Could Not gain true, lasting order in the society. Except for Solon, who gave an ethical, people's goverment.
ReplyDelete(2) by showing how religion must not work
(3)
1. I thought it was interesting how he related the philosophers and their search for truth and the things they found as being enduring, and in conformity with other truths that have been revealed (especially how he said it melded so well with the teachings of Christ, and Christianity).
ReplyDelete2. I also loved how he repeatedly states that order is dual in nature, both public and private, and that order advances together. So what we should do, is control the only person we can, ourselves, and then in so doing help others do the same, because the effects spread, as Confucius taught.
3. I was inspired to be a better person.
The Greeks didn't have much cohesion between any of the city states. THAT was part of their downfall. We need to have cohesion; a bundle of sticks is harder to break than one.
ReplyDeleteThey believed they were better than everyone, and they were arrogant and proud about it. As a result, they treated everyone else like garbage, even their allies! We have to love and respect all nationalities and cultures, realising their worth and the worth of their people.
Aristotle or Plato taught that the natural law is the only reliable and just/ right law. Even back then, natural law was so important! The founders undertstood this and implemented God's guidance and basic principles in the constitution.
A really powerful lesson that I learned from reading chapter 3 of Roots of American Order is that a people without religion can't have a strong government. And that a government without some type of religion just doesn't work. Like we learned earlier in the book we need some type of higher order, and God is a really really good place to find that order.
ReplyDelete(This is for World History)
Alright guys the coolest thing I found was the fact that Greece fell because it wasn't united, they were prideful and abandoned Solon's righteousness for the prizes of an empire. I thought it was interesting how close we are to that today in America. The other interesting thing I found was that Solon was like George Washington in so many ways! Do we need a Solon/Washington today to reunite us in purpose?
ReplyDeleteCool, Princess!
ReplyDeleteso... I did not finish all of Roots for today but I did read some of it and here are three things that I learned (we are in class doing this do... yeah)
Solon was awesome! Durant talked about him a bit but Kirk really went into him ans talked about what he contributed and little known to me he gave up a lot of the ideas for checks and balances
The Greeks LOVED beauty! they just loved it! they were the most beautiful civilization out there, they knew the importance of beauty, they wanted to give something to other generations to enjoy
Greek Religion was not very good or happy really the gods were selfish beings who, the Greeks thought, wanted a Ton of sacrifices and were just all powerful wicked people... not the really cool people we see today...
One of the most prominent themes I realized while reading was the idea that social and national order only follow after personal order has been created. The state of the personal soul is a microcosm of the polis or nation. This is also very similar to Confucius' ideas that we studied in HoH.
ReplyDelete1. Morals
ReplyDelete2. Religion
3. Strong leaders
Greeks showed that order and religion, law, family, and education systems, as Will Durant shows in heroes of history, are all necessary dependents that keep civilization functioning correctly
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ReplyDeletewell... this is the first draft of my world history poem...
ReplyDeleteThe Persians entered with their ships, they came with flame and ire
They came with terror on their lips; they came through brake and brier
Along the icy shores they fought, the soldiers swiftly ran
With dead the foggy beach was fraught; they were fighting man to man
The beach was lost to the hateful fiends, the men were in despair
And then atop the hill so green salvation came to there
The Grecian hosts, the exits blocked, to the Persians put a halt
The armies waited day by day, neither army to assault
But then the dawn, like hope from heav’n, gave solders strength in heart
The Greeks they charged, to live and win-or die by Persian dart
Athenian steel and skill the light armed Persians could not beat
Athenian Arms win the day when in the field they finally meet
And Persian men are routed North and South and East and West
The Generals are terrified, they run surpassing all the rest
The Persian hosts fled to their ships with Grecian army right behind
The Persians left the shores in haste their grand conquest denied
On this plane of Marathon a legend came and went
It traveled through the ancient world as a message from Mercury sent
The world would know the Greeks were strong, when united, standing tall
But Alexander used that flaw, and divided, Greece would fall
Sarah Hardy- World History
ReplyDeleteThere are so many things that we can learn from the Greeks. Both good and bad. Two of the main things that stood out to me was the importance of unity and correct morals.
When people are not unified and working as one they will fight with one another and basically diminish their civilization from the inside out.
If a people don't have and live by correct morals, they will fail. When they have and are built upon correct principles they are able to resist from things like arrogance, pride, lust for power, etc. which will cause them to progress in such a way that will make not just the individual stronger but also stronger as a people.
OK, wow! So I was planning to finish Beowulf today and watched Mondays recording for World Lit and now I'm pumped to finish it! At first I read the summary of it, and the introduction thinking it sounded really boring. But now it looks more interesting!
ReplyDeleteNathan, I am jealous... I like your poem! Good job! I wish I could get at least one good poem out sometime!
thanks crystal! you are in world history, right?
ReplyDeleteif you are then you will be making a poem, and it will be awesome!
World History:
ReplyDeleteJust a few thoughts on chapter 3 of Roots; first of all, I marked the chapter heading just because that IS the Greek world! Glory and Ruin, it seems like they were always in one of those 2 phases, there was no middle hardly.
"The Hellenes were the cleverest people of antiquity, and the best soldiers; yet they spent their energies in destroying one another."
This shows both some of the glory they had, as well as the ruin that came of them. They were brilliant, they knew things, they could DO things, and yet chose to fight when there was no need.
"The Parthenon was not built by a spirit of sweetness and light only, but also by a civic ambition that knew few scruples." pg 55
"A man may teach as much by what he is as by what he says."
What does that person teach though? Depending on the person, he could be trying to verbally teach you to be honest, yet his actions may spell the word(s) "hypocrite" or "Liar" You may learn from the person, but not always how they WANT you to learn. What does that in and of itself teach us?
This part is just so cool! And again, I'm finally making connections! Dr. Groft said something along these lines in World Lit the other day, and I hear it everywhere;
"It was the folly of the citizens... men's vices, not gods' malice, undo righteousness:
If now you suffer, do not blame the powers,
For they are good, and all the fault was ours;
All the strongholds you put into his hands,
And now his slaves must do as he commands"
pg 67
I absolutely loved this part because it's so true! You have control of what happens! Make it good! Don't waste or ignore that strength!
Anyway, just a couple quotes I liked and thoughts branching from them.
Yes Nathan, I am in World History, I'm just not looking forward to the writing of my poem, it really doesn't come easy to me and I get very frustrated trying to think of how to put the words down right (Or even figure out what the words ARE), and make it into what it needs to be.
ReplyDeleteHo hum... The Greeks.
ReplyDeleteSomething I found while reading Heroes of History actually kept coming back to my mind as I read this chapter. It nwas soemthing along the lines of
"They had confederacies, but hardly a state, adn when a united Persia challenged them they came close to losing their collective freedom because they were so fond of their local liberty."
I think the greatest lesson I learned was that Greece sacrificed the unity of the whole, for the freedom of the part. Just as the Articles of the Confederation were flawed because they didn't unite the thirteen colonies, Greece was not united and so would never last.
Luckily America fixed that problem by abandoning the Articles and adopting the constitution, giving an excellent example of learning from our history. :)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCrystal, you quoted the quote on pg 67!
ReplyDeleteTHAT IS THE BEST QUOTE I am going to say it again
because it is just so awesome
"If now you suffer, do not blame the powers,
For they are good, and all the fault was ours;
All the strongholds you put into his hands,
And now his slaves must do as he commands"
that quote just gives me goosebumps!
Solon is pretty awesome if you ask me!
our country is in some troubled times but it is not "the powers" that made it so god didn't make it happen, that was our fault and now we can either be the slaves as the Greeks OR we can rise and be the changes we want to see
I really wish that I had finished chapter three of ROOTS by class!!! it is an AWESOME chapter!
That is a really great insight, smithy!
ReplyDeleteWell, people, I have to say, today I have no profound, life altering insights to give you (hysterical sobbing from classmates). Let me think..........I have been reading Beowulf (though, for some reason, everytime I read a book for lit i fall asleep.....) and i have to say that I figured out why they would do such crazy things as go to the bottom of a lake to fight a monster for nine hours or fight one bare handed! they refused to let life become easy for them, so they did seemingly impossible things to make themselves grow! They DID HARD THINGS!!!
The same thing happened to me when i read the Count of Monte Cristo (which is a fantastic book that i would whole-heartedly recomend if you can stand being sucked into a book 1000 pgs long....). I could never figure out why Dantes did some of the seemingly random, insignificant things he did. Then, I had an apostrophe!;) EVERTHING he did, every move he made , every connection or rumor he started was for revenge! it was so well planned that no one ever caught him (well, he did have fourteen years to plan), and he went off to live happily ever after after he had destroyed his enemies. How different from Les Miserables! Jean val Jeans story is a beautiful one of mercy and forgiveness, while the Counts is more dark and bent.
Sorry, that turned into a tangent.
So, there are some life changing thoughts (sobbing turns to cheers) and i will see you people later!
Peace out, my novas
punky
PS if nobody gets the nova thing, i will gladly explain it in my next post if you will simply die if you dont find out. I dont think its necessary though. You people are smart ;)
(hysterical sobbing turns to cheers as Megan gives some life changing thoughts!);)
ReplyDeleteI loved Beowulf Megan! and I also thought that he was a bit weird for fighting randomly at the bottom of a lake for who knows how long and (for the sake of fairness) fights bear handed!
but I totally agree about the "do hard things" aspect of that!
I also seem to fall asleep when reading World Lit books... :D
@Megan: Les Miseraables is the BOMB! I have een wanting so badly to read it in full but due to school the past year and a half I havent had time to tackle the 1200 or so pages. maybe it was 1800. I forget. It was long. But the musical rocks my socks! And I've read PARt of the book. Such a classic tale of mercy and justice, dark and light, but I'm going off on a tangent.
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean tto post was this. As I've been researching and reading up on Beowulf, I came across an ahh-mazing video of the opening lines in old english. I think it expresses clearly how beautiful the epic really is before its even translated. its only two minutes, so I encourage you to take the time to watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y13cES7MMd8&feature=channel
Hey SMITHY! Guess what! my 9 year old cousin read Les Miserables in three days. Whats your excuse! :D
ReplyDeletePerhaps I'm too busy reading large science fiction novels. :P
ReplyDeleteAnd if your cousin read it in three days she must be like Johnny five or something because thats just crazy!
It was one of those perfect English autumnal days which occur more frequently in memory than in life. ~P.D. James
ReplyDeleteSo, I cam across this quote a little while ago and it got me thinking...How often are we constantly searching for that perfect moment, day, picture, life? The point (that I get out of this quote, not what the author intended of course) is to say that no moments are perfect.
So often when we look back on a great day we believe it was perfect. However, when you really think about it, there are most likely a few things that went wrong. The only thing that was perfect during that perfect day/moment was your emotions. You were happy and had a great attitude. That is why you think that day/moment was perfect.
So, my belief is that you need to stop looking and waiting for the perfect day/moment because you will never find it. However, you need to start being happy and haveing a great attitude so that you will be able to have many perfect memories ☺
Good stuff, guys. Layne, way to find meaning in that quote even if the author never intended it. Great poetry is like that, it is more than the sum of its parts, it is more than the author ever intended because it is, in itself, a creature, a life.
ReplyDeleteKeep writing, keep thinking, keep challenging, keep creating!
A Question and Response about assignment #7 in SoLed:
ReplyDeleteStudent: I have done this assignment except for the very last section. I was meaning to email you earlier this week, but i didn't. Could you please explain to me what I am supposed to do for the last question? What kind of things do you mean when you say things that are beyond my control? Are these things that have to do with the things I wrote down for the other one? Or are they totally different? Are they excuses that I make that are beyond my control? Or situations that i WOULD make excuses for that are beyond my control?
Dr. Groft: The idea is that there really are things that you cannot control. So this section is basically asking: How can I learn to work hard and to do my part, and then to accept the results before beginning again to work hard and to do my part. Many people use this acceptance of things as they are as an excuse not to dream or create or move, and that is unfortunate. But real leaders dream, create, move, improve, but accept the present situation. While they are in the moment, they learn from the past, they don't let guilt from the past rule them. While they are in the moment they anticipate the future with eagerness and courage, they don't stress about the unknowns of the future. And while they are in the moment, they are grateful for what is.
Wow guys, wow. This stuff is incredible. Oh, and this is a two part post.
ReplyDelete@ Joseph. So you asked if America needs a great leader today. It does, so badly, and I'm sure that us, and people like us will either come and save the day, or America will die. Its that simple.
I also noted that you mentioned that we need a leader to reunite us in purpose. What is our purpose and our dream? Does everyone know about it? And also, what things can unite and bring us together? If we don't have a common vision today we will fall apart; a common dream is way important.
In the past things have brought us together. Dreams of freedom and liberty, our race to the moon, innovation, expansion and settling the west. But also we've had other things such as the revolution, civil war, oppression, WWI, and WWII; these things are much less desirable. Yet if we do not take action, either America and all the freedoms we have will be lost, or we will be compelled and suppressed into unity. Must our nation go through such tribulation? No...
However, in our present situation, sacrifice must be made by great individuals willing to lead us to victory. It is inevitable and an almost sad truth. Just as Beowulf mustered the courage to fight the dragon and sacrificed his life to secure the “treasures” for his people, so must we now rise up and throw off the “dragon” that haunts us today. For it is taking and threatening the blessings we all are entitled to from God. Was that not the American dream, to secure the (God given) blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity? What great blessings have come because of Liberty, do not take them for granted; and realize this day that if we do nothing we will fall.
Before I came to Williamsburg I realized our awful dilemma, and I felt it was my duty to put things right. However I desperately wished and prayed that there would be people out there, just like me, who felt the same way and were preparing themselves to assist and lead in the battle that will come. How happy I am to know you guys; I can see greatness in every one of you. It is my firm belief that we were reserved to come to the earth in this day because we are great. Let us chose to be who we are, and chose to sacrifice and triumph in this our calling.
ReplyDeleteFor today, we are not blessed with the luxury of going about day to day, living normal lives. Yes!..gone are the days of quite living. It was my personal dream to one day, through my education and labor, become a successful entrepreneur with complete financial freedom and to then go on and become a gift giver, a servant to others, a helping hand, a teacher and a blessing to the down trodden, poor and needy. In that, I know I would find true happiness, anyone would find true happiness, and I knew and still know that I could attain my dream, yet today even that would not be enough; Today we must reach New Dreams. Today we must forsake the evil from within. Today we must Teach. Today, we must Lead. Because Today we need statesmen. Because Today, out of negligence, in this our dire straight, we cannot settle for less. Because We Today, were born for this great task, and we can, and we must succeed!
David, you just made my day!
ReplyDeleteI think you need to take that post, change a few things here and there, and make it into an essay! That was beautiful.
I think you’re absolutely right. Our world today is in desperate need of true leaders and statesmen. William Shakespeare once said, “Rightly to be great is not to stir without great argument, but greatly to find quarrel in a straw when honor’s at the stake.” IV-4-53 In other words, do we wait for great things to happen to us, or do we make great things happen?
Many people can recall from the Disney film “The Incredibles” a small boy at the end of a driveway on a tricycle. When asked “What are you doing?” He would respond, “I dunno, waiting for something AMAZING to happen I guess.” Will we be like that boy? Living out our life waiting for others to do amazing things, waiting for someone else to accomplish the task that in our hearts we know we have the potential to do?
“What is a man if the chief good and market of his time be but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more. Sure he that made us with such large discourse, looking before and after, gave us not that capability and god-like reason to fust in us unus’d.” Hamlet says it all. As I mentioned, w have a choice. Either we can wait for great things to happen to us, or we can make great things happen. Mankind was meant to do more than to just survive. We were not imbued by our creator with life, liberty, and the ability to learn and do great things for nothing. We were born, not with the potential, nor the ability, but the obligation to do great things, and he that does not realize this is no more than a beast.
Great class today guys!
that's awesome Andrew!!!
ReplyDeleteand David, you should definitely make that into an essay it's Awesome!!!
I'm just checking to see if this works :)
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm writing a speech on it and I pulled that last paragraph from what I have of the speech so far, thanks guys :)
ReplyDelete